#copchat January 9: Policing people with mental illnesses

Mental illness is a hot topic in the news right now, thanks largely to mass killings, domestic violence and violence that doesn’t fit either of those narratives. While the stories help to highlight the overall topic — that mental illness is prevalent among our neighbors, coworkers and the strangers we pass each day — they don’t do much to help us understand deeper issues, such as how to recognize and then communicate with people who have mental illnesses.

This affects emergency services more than it does the rest of us, because police, fire and EMS personnel are usually the first on the scene during or after an incident. They often don’t know how to respond appropriately, for a variety of reasons. As a result, things can go very bad very fast. The subject gets hurt or killed, the cops look bad, and community trust is broken. It should follow that you can’t have an effective social media program if you don’t have effective communication to start with.

On Wednesday night, we explored some of these issues in #copchat. Mostly in order, the transcript follows below. Click “Read more” on the bottom right of each segment to continue.


#copchat 01/09/2013

The #copchat community discussed how police relate, and could better relate, to people with mental illnesses.

Storified by christammiller· Sat, Jan 12 2013 07:16:33

RT @TPSChrisBoddy: MT @christammiller: Good morning #copchat friends. Topic tonight: police response to ppl w/ mental illness, 9pm @wazaname @Org9 @steelhoofKristen Rose
@christammiller @Org9 @steelhoof #copchat : 1A) http://pic.twitter.com/DXCxU2xpblahhZ
Going to post 1 last twit pic on behalf of a coworker #copchat http://pic.twitter.com/NuvCnzvXblahhZ
@christammiller @Org9 @steelhoof #copchat – 1C) http://pic.twitter.com/4nqKN9IpblahhZ
@christammiller @Org9 @steelhoof #copchat – 1D) http://pic.twitter.com/8yl4cg1nblahhZ
@christammiller whomever i spoke to (have badge #’s) told me that it IS controlled substance #copchatblahhZ
@christammiller too late for person who may have social phobia however #copchat ill keep badge #’s however.if they lie bout that.other liesblahhZ
Priming the #CopChat pump: Millvale PA police Taser mentally ill man in their custody http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/01/08/mother-calls-video-of-taser-being-used-on-her-son-disturbing-terrible/WarOnPrivacy
Paranoid Schizophrenic man shoots/injures 2 police officers on subway and is shot/killed by them http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/06/family-man-fatally-shot-by-police-was-mentally-ill/ #CopChatWarOnPrivacy
@WarOnPrivacy#copchat this story speaks very loudly of totally untrained and as a result probably very #scared officers in the streetBill Ries-Knight
@WarOnPrivacy #copchat concur no gun & if he was paranoid schizophrenic and not medicated and treatment very likely this might not happenedBill Ries-Knight
Q1: #Police use force less when trained on mental illness issues. Where does the training/education need to start? #copchatchristammiller
RT @steelhoof #copchat I’m here to begin and let me tell you biggest thing we need is education for the police and administrators in schoolschristammiller
@christammiller #copchat the training needs to be again with getting the office to recognize what mental illness looks like in peopleBill Ries-Knight
@christammiller @steelhoof In Canada I believe the schools & police are educated but SM has brought mental issues to forefront! #copchatLeigh Buchan
@lives2talk In what ways has #SM highlighted mental illness issues? #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller It’s been a platform for parents of kids w/mental illess to discuss their concerns & issues openly #copchatLeigh Buchan
@lives2talk Do you see #police actively engaging or even monitoring discussions like that? Seems like it would be a great resource. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller dont know about starting, but if relationships with mental health agencies are fostered – can be of benefit IMO #copchatblahhZ
@wazaname Do you have examples of existing relationships? I’m thinking of the Memphis CIT program; others? #copchatchristammiller
CITThe Crisis Intervention Team (CIT) program is a community partnership working with mental health consumers and family members. Our goal i…
@christammiller unfortunately….. no. #copchatblahhZ
@wazaname And I also agree that more education is needed in dealing with people with mental health issues. Both public and police #copchatRandall Arsenault
In Ontario, trng re police interactions w those in crisis starts before new cops even hit the streets. @christammiller #copchatChris Boddy
TPS have a MCIT program which matches a cop with a nurse responding to those suffering a mental illness. @christammiller @wazaname #copchatChris Boddy
@TPSChrisBoddy #copchat exactly what we need. Reconize MH. & look at people as helps because then they can see the nuances that matterBill Ries-Knight
@TPSChrisBoddy Tell us more — what does the training look like & what does it involve? #copchatchristammiller
@TPSChrisBoddy the MCIT program is very effective in Scarborough. The Officers choose to be there. #copchatRandall Arsenault
@TPSChrisBoddy Gotta ask – @TheRealDamany posted earlier abt Michael Eligon shooting. MCIT in effect then, or after? #copchatchristammiller
@PCArsenault8074 2/2 and explain the situation…doing best to calm said person down #copchatblahhZ
@wazaname No worries. So what would those relationships look like? Where would a PD start in developing them? #copchatchristammiller
@wazaname Considering that many times the relationships don’t start until after a crisis/incident. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy does..very useful.. Not enough resources to be able to be on ALL calls where could be of benefit #copchatblahhZ
Sure. How to triage calls then… MT @wazaname: Not enough resources to be able to be on ALL calls where could be of benefit #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy is DEFINITELY positive when can accompany police #copchatblahhZ
@christammiller We don’t have resources for MCITs 24/7 however EVERY TPS cop receives training every year in this. @TheRealDamany #copchatChris Boddy
@christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy I wasn’t aware of that. Very good idea! But sometimes mental illess isn’t obvious #copchatLeigh Buchan
GREAT point. How to educate on recognizing potential? MT @lives2talk: Very good idea! But sometimes mental illess isnt obvious #copchatchristammiller
@lives2talk Great point! Mental illness isn’t always obvious, some people don’t even know the signs. Major issue for teens too #copchatRandall Arsenault
@lives2talk @christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy isnt and it presents itself like night and day at times #copchatblahhZ
@christammiller participate in mental health agencies’ AGM’s is one thought? #copchatblahhZ
@christammiller annual general meetings.. Most non profits have them..all are welcome #CopchatblahhZ
@christammiller agencies that work w/ populations such as addictions / mental health / homeless are frequently dealing with crisis’ #copchatblahhZ
#copchat we have to convince people that control the purse strings that mental health is cheaper to deal with when it becomes a commodityBill Ries-Knight
#copchat. When an illness becomes a commodity early treatment becomes apparently important. Keep them out of the emergency room & jailsBill Ries-Knight
#copchat on Talk of the Nation today. it has been pointed out that far more is learned from people under treatment than shootersBill Ries-Knight
#copchat when mental health can be dealt with from the school level that early intervention makes a huge differenceBill Ries-Knight
#copchat 1 suggestion that made sense was to go back to the days when students actually saw counselors on a regular basis.Bill Ries-Knight
@TPSChrisBoddy What kind of training… classroom, scenario-based? Mental illness is so individual. #copchatchristammiller
Scenario & classroom w a focus on de-escalation. Use of force is always a last resort. @christammiller #copchatChris Boddy
@christammiller Classroom, scenario based, guest speakers, all good methods of training. #copchatRandall Arsenault
@TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller *should* be a last resort. Less than yr ago.person wearing hospital gown in east toronto.shot by TPS #copchatblahhZ
@wazaname That was the shooting of Michael Eligon — I RT’d an article about that at the start of the hour. Very sad. #copchatchristammiller
@TPSChrisBoddy What are some de-escalation techniques you are taught to use? #copchatchristammiller
@TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller @TheRealDamany I would think that in Canada it’s most frontline officers would be trained #copchatLeigh Buchan
#CopChat Think I see one prob – lumping mental illnesses together. Schizophrenia is not BiPolar is not BPD.WarOnPrivacy
@WarOnPrivacy Yes. & also w/ bizarre behavior, assuming substance abuse which may or may not be a factor in crisis. #copchatchristammiller
@WarOnPrivacy exactly, lumping all mental illness together makes it harder on people to fully understand, and almost more scary. #copchatRandall Arsenault
#CopChat to clarify: Borderline’s don’t appear MI – can seem more competent than average folks. However, they can be highly manipulative.WarOnPrivacy
#CopChat Some MI easy to spot like manic BiPolar high or Schitz psychosis. I’ve seen BPDs manipulate officers. @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
@TPSChrisBoddy Are there any news articles about MCIT successes? #copchatchristammiller
Last Feb, we had the media at out College to witness how we train our officers to respond to those in crisis. @christammiller #copchatChris Boddy
.@TheRealDamany The TPS includes consumers survivours is the development of our training. #copchatChris Boddy
@TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller case in ? http://m.thestar.com/news/gta/crime/article/1125770–toronto-police-involved-in-east-end-shooting (no i wasnt there so wont pretend 2 knO full stry) #copchatblahhZ
@TheRealDamany @TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller In many of those cases, the mental illness is not obvious! #copchatLeigh Buchan
Q2: So TPS police get annual training on mental illness. W/ limited resources, how can PDs make tng regular & consistent? #copchatchristammiller
Perhaps more to the point, how can #police ingrain sensitivity to mental illness in their overall situational awareness? #copchatchristammiller
I would suggest a constant community liaison you bring the subject up on regular basis almost to the point of being tiresome #copchatBill Ries-Knight
#CopChat Local PDs should consider reaching out to NAMI and other local resources. Local Mental Health centers may help. @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
@christammiller @WarOnPrivacy What is NAMI? #copchatLeigh Buchan
@lives2talk National Alliance on Mental Illness #copchatBijou Chevalier
@christammiller Have seminars held by professionals in the various areas of mental illness #copchatLeigh Buchan
Need to be high quality RT @lives2talk: @christammiller Have seminars held by professionals in the various areas of mental illness #copchatchristammiller
@lives2talk For maximum absorption of information. Seminar attendees have to care. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller It’s sad if there are frontline workers who Don’t Care #copchatLeigh Buchan
#CopChat ‘Have to care’ -> That suggests core groups of appropriately trained officers. @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
#CopChat ..cont. That is leading w/ the heart is actually helpful here. But NOT with BPDs – they’ll take your heart and run w/ it @wazanameWarOnPrivacy
MT @WarOnPrivacy: In figuring out whos a good fit to work w/ MI, it helps to know that compassion/empathy -> directly into wisdom #copchatchristammiller
#CopChat cont Maybe better said for BPDs -> Compassion yes, Empathy no. @wazanameWarOnPrivacy
@WarOnPrivacy BPDs not the only ones who manipulate. How can police recognize manipulation & head it off or deal w/ it? #copchatchristammiller
@WarOnPrivacy better my <3 than their life/someone else’s.there is always certain cases where PD have no choice but 2 take a person #copchatblahhZ
#CopChat I get that. I posted two opposing stories earlier. In one the officers really didn’t have a choice. @wazanameWarOnPrivacy
@WarOnPrivacy and realizing that there is never a point where learning is complete..various MI various ways of presenting itself. #copchatblahhZ
@WarOnPrivacy exactly. Fear of danger is relative when there is a difference in rapport w/ #copchatblahhZ
I think they just become cynical. RT @lives2talk: @christammiller Its sad if there are frontline workers who Dont Care #copchatchristammiller
@lives2talk Lack of education/training & cynicism leads to misconduct & even abuse/excessive force. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller Those like that need to be weeded out and dealt with! #copchatLeigh Buchan
Going back to @steelhoof’s 1st point abt educ MT @WarOnPrivacy: Have to care -> suggests core groups of appropriately trained ofcs #copchatchristammiller
Absolutely! But may be systemic in spots. RT @lives2talk: @christammiller Those like that need to be weeded out and dealt with! #copchatchristammiller
@lives2talk In other words can you fire an entire or majority of police force when cultural cynicism runs that deep? #copchatchristammiller
@RocheJacqueline @TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller yes..even tazers can be deadly #copchatblahhZ
@WarOnPrivacy This is done as part of Memphis Crisis Intervention Team model: http://ow.ly/gGwsw but uptake around nation spotty. #copchatchristammiller
#CopChat Based on my experience, there are plenty of Mental Health pros who wouldn’t hesitate to help. Big reward in defusing situations.WarOnPrivacy
Volunteer? MT @WarOnPrivacy: Based on my experience, there are plenty of Mental Health pros who wouldnt hesitate to help. #copchatchristammiller
@TheRealDamany TPS have literally 1000s of contacts every year w those in crisis; very few result in injuries. @christammiller #copchatChris Boddy
@christammiller @WarOnPrivacy No local mental hlth ctrs in Ajax/Pickering #copchatLeigh Buchan
#CopChat – I’d offer that whoever 1st responds to someone w/ MI will have the same task to do – no matter their professional background.WarOnPrivacy
@christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy r those ‘reported’ ? 1 mishandled is 2 much.sry again.i wouldnt wanna do ur job.not saying it’s easy #copchatblahhZ
@wazaname I agree, one injury is 2 many. We recognize that. #copchatChris Boddy
@TPSChrisBoddy ty..and again..i recognize that the GOOD cops…are instrumental #copchatblahhZ
@TPSChrisBoddy Reported injuries….reported. #CopChat @TheRealDamany @christammillerPaisley Rae
@paisleyrae Hi Paisley! All injuries are reported. @TheRealDamany @christammiller #CopChatChris Boddy
MT @paisleyrae: @TPSChrisBoddy people who are marginalized are less likely to report, for a host of reasons… #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller Suggestion #1 – eliminate the phrase "a few bad apples" from your vocabulary. #CopChatPaisley Rae
@christammiller why? Because people are telling you what they see when they look at you & it ain’t pretty. Don’t pass the buck. #CopChatPaisley Rae
#CopChat In figuring out who’s a good fit to work w/ MI, it helps to know that compassion/empathy translates directly into wisdom @wazanameWarOnPrivacy
In terms of TPS training, does everyone get basic training with some getting more advanced training? #copchatBijou Chevalier
Or in addition to all the other roles, are individual officers expected to be mental health para-professionals as well? #copchatBijou Chevalier
@Mlle_Bijou that’s a good point as well, mental health is just one of the many issues Police deal with on a daily basis. #copchatRandall Arsenault
#CopChat ‘Various MI Manifestation’ -> This includes the Developmentally Disabled. Though not MI they do need special handling @wazanameWarOnPrivacy
@christammiller R thr repercutions if PD treats person as having mental illness when they don’t? #copchatLeigh Buchan
Interesting! Don’t know. @TPSChrisBoddy? MT @lives2talk: R thr repercutions if PD treats person as having MI when they dont? #copchatchristammiller
@lives2talk How can it be bad though? De-escalation is de-escalation, no? @TPSChrisBoddy #copchatchristammiller
.@christammiller @lives2talk Short answer, we must treat everyone fairly and w respect regardless. #copchatChris Boddy
#CopChat Do you mean where someone has been involuntarily committed and does not have a Mental Illness? @lives2talk @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
Good point, didn’t think of that. RT @WarOnPrivacy: Do you mean where someone has been involuntarily committed & does not have MI? #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller @TPSChrisBoddy I know ppl with physical disabilities that have been misinterpreted as MI. They get ANGRY #copchatLeigh Buchan
@WarOnPrivacy indeed #copchat http://m.thestar.com/news/gta/article/1142137–toronto-police-settle-g20-human-rights-case-against-quadriplegic-man story makes me..a lil sick #copchatblahhZ
@WarOnPrivacy physically disables in prev reply #copchatblahhZ
@lives2talk @TPSChrisBoddy For that matter, ppl w/ autism spectrum disorder – not MI but need sensitivity too. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller @lives2talk We train on autism also. #copchatChris Boddy
@TPSChrisBoddy @christammiller I was thinking more of MD and MS #copchatLeigh Buchan
#CopChat I’d think descalation training would benefit those interactions. It’s offered more and more often @lives2talk @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
@lives2talk MD & MS… sounds like disability in general is poorly understood & also feared, mental OR physical… #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller @WarOnPrivacy Would think that hosp’s psychiatrist on call would make the final decision B4 commitment! #copchatLeigh Buchan
#CopChat Usually true but there are boneheaded psychiatrists out there. @lives2talk @christammillerWarOnPrivacy
@WarOnPrivacy @lives2talk Boneheaded & also those not well versed in certain types of MI. Seems to be a shifting subject. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller i am not in #Copchat but I’m my area there was a nice partnership between local pd and mental health professionalsCorey Harrell
@corey_harrell Hey Corey! Thanks for jumping in. What size area? Just curious whether rural/suburban/urban. #copchatchristammiller
@corey_harrell great to hear! We have an excellent relationship/partnership with our agencies as well. Very important. #copchatRandall Arsenault
@corey_harrell Sounds like the Memphis Model? #copchatchristammiller
@corey_harrell I’m just wondering how easy it would be to translate that model to an area w/ fewer resources… #copchatchristammiller
If anyone has some questions u can ask My wife is mental health pro who trains NYSP recruits and used to work wit local PD on calls #CopchatCorey Harrell
@christammiller Easy. It is really about training officers how to recognize, appropriately handle situations 1/2 #copchatCorey Harrell
@christammiller & be aware of local MH resources and local mental hygience law 2/2 #copchatCorey Harrell
@corey_harrell Dunno. Training budgets being cut left & right. That makes it not so easy IMO. #copchatchristammiller
@christammiller She don’t know. The programs here are state and grant (CIT) funded. The PD doesn’t have to pay for it. 1/2 #copchatCorey Harrell
@christammiller Partnerships between PD and local mental health agencies could reduce cost if both work together 2/2 #copchatCorey Harrell
@corey_harrell Ahh that makes sense. So I wonder if PDs are not educated enough on grant resources…. #copchatchristammiller
Deep gratitude to @YourAnonNews for not trolling #copchat this week. It was a good conversation & starting point for more. Thank you.christammiller
I am seriously/personally thanking @YourAnonNews for not spamming #copchat. U could have..lord knows.. ‘ucoulda’ #WhyDidntYou?blahhZ
Bedtime reading as #copchat comes to a close: liability for failure to train -> constitutional rights violations? http://ow.ly/gGzx7christammiller
Good job @christammiller for bringing up an important issue last night. That conversation needs to continue for a long time. #copchat#FreeSpeechForPolice

What can you add to this conversation?

2 thoughts on “#copchat January 9: Policing people with mental illnesses

  1. Jared

    Yep. Proactive treatment is step #1, but that’s not always an option, such as in the moment of a crisis like those described. Communication, particularly de-escalation, is a skill that is a must if the mentally ill and dangerous are to be helped without any resulting violence.
    JaredĀ“s last [type] ..Musical Schizophrenia

  2. Christa Miller Post author

    Thanks for the comment, Jared. Do you think that a police department that trains for the right communication has a higher likelihood of the right handshake with the mental health community, so that police contact can ultimately lead to the proactive treatment you mentioned? Or do you feel like overall, that handshake could be better?

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